CATDOLL: Interview with "Shirobako" producer Kohei Kawase about the industry portrait of workplace animation

This is an interview about the original animation Shirobako that was published on the website AniKo from March 25 to 26, 2015. The interviewee is Shirobako's producer Kohei Kawase.

After watching it, you can know that the producers are actually thinking about what the audience is thinking. Those who are interested in Shirobako's work will probably benefit from watching it.

I thought, “It’s obvious that I should take this project.”

——"SHIROBAKO" Producer Kawase Kohei (Part 1)

"SHIROBAKO" is an original animation set in an animation production company, telling the story of how five girls work. The production manager (later promoted to production director), animators, 3D animators, new voice actors, and people who aspire to become screenwriters - this work combines exaggerated and humorous performances to directly present the figures of these girls struggling in different environments in front of the audience. The TV release is currently approaching the end of the story, and we took this opportunity to interview the producer of this film, Mr. Kawase Kohei, to see how this work was born.

Personal Data

Kohei Kawase

Producer, works for Warner Entertainment Japan Ltd., and has participated in works such as "Magical Nurse Mugi", "Shakugan no Shana", "Roku Club!", and "Selector Infected WIXOSS" as a producer.

Interview content

Animation works that tell the story of an animation company are very difficult to create

——How did the work "SHIROBAKO" start to be planned?

The proposal for Kawase's work first came from PAWORKS President Kenji Horikawa and Supervisor Mizushima Tsutomu. So later I learned that Mr. Horikawa has always felt that a work should be made that tells the story of the animation creator, or a work that can pass on the creator's craft. And Supervisor Mizushima has always been interested in making a work that describes the animation company itself since he started working in the production process. Then, when making "Another", President Horikawa told Supervisor Mizushima about this, and the supervisor said, "Actually, I have this idea too," so everyone started to promote this project.

——When did Mr. Kawase get involved?

Kawase I often interact with PAWORKS at work. It was Mr. Nagatani Takashi from INFINITE who first told me about it. He is also one of the producers of this film. He said something like, "I have a plan for an original animation, and it's a big project for 2 quarters. Do you want to listen to it?" He showed me the plan at the time. I remember that the plan was very simple, with nothing but words.

——What did you think when you first heard about this project?

I immediately understood what Kawase and his team wanted to do, because I had also thought about describing the animation company's work plan in this way. But in reality, it is very difficult to portray the daily work of an animation company. There are many departments and various types of work in the animation industry, and if you want to cram them into the work, it will require a huge amount of setting work. Even if you cram them in, the story will still be about the daily work of the animation company... From the perspective of the picture, it seems boring. And a large amount of setting work is equivalent to spending money and time. Although the creator can rely on perseverance to create the work, considering that they have to make money, it is very difficult to successfully create this commercial work. Therefore, from a business perspective, I think this plan seems to be untenable. Animation production companies generally don't take on such projects. They invest energy, but the things they make in the end are not interesting or even good-looking. I think everyone would think this way, and I am no exception. The result of my thinking at the time was that this plan was difficult to achieve.

—— So far, there have been several works based on the animation industry, right?

Kawase: Yes. Director Daichi Shotaro filmed a film called "Animation Production in Progress: Black Beauty". Although the animation was filmed, the content could only be mainly funny, because it couldn't be filmed without this arrangement, or people didn't have the ability to film a serious plot under this story background. Having said that, I have been in the animation industry for 18 or 19 years, and I have always felt that this industry is still very interesting. Whenever the audience sees a good-looking animation, they must want to understand the production process behind the work, even if it is just a rumor, they will be more or less interested. Although Mr. Horikawa and I have different starting points, we both hope to show everyone interesting things in this industry. So I wondered at the time whether there would be any TV station willing to allocate some funds for us to make this film (laughs).

——(Laughs).

Kawase: However, when the project was presented to me, I thought it was a clear choice for me to take on this project, and I agreed immediately.

—— It’s amazing that you agreed so immediately. You clearly know the difficulties you just mentioned.

Kawase: I’m a realist, and I usually can’t say something like “It must be fate.” But when I came across the “SHIROBAKO” project, I really thought so. So the next thing I thought about was “Okay, how should I raise funds specifically?” and “How much money will PAWORKS ask me for to make the film?” (laughs).

——I see (laughs).

Kawase said from another perspective, as a producer, I look at this project from a commercial perspective. First of all, the director is Mizushima Tsutomu, then the series composition is Yokote Michiko, and the animation production company is PAWORKS. With this lineup, I don't have to worry about the quality of the finished product. And I have worked with Mizushima many times before. If the production lineup is changed, I may have to consider it. The main reason I agreed on the spot was because of this.

—— This is the first time that Mr. Kawase has collaborated with PAWORKS, right? What was your impression of the company before?

Kawase: I have a strong feeling that "this company's works are very rigorous." Maybe I didn't express it clearly, but after working in this industry for a long time, I like to understand the color and atmosphere of a production company through the attitude conveyed by the works. In this regard, no matter what type of film PAWORKS shoots, it makes people feel serious and rigorous from beginning to end. So if "SHIROBAKO" is handed over to them, they can also shoot a rigorous work.

——I understand exactly what you mean.

Kawase: In works like Angel Beats!, you can feel that the production is very serious... Of course, this is influenced by Director Seiji Kishi. Action films like Cannan also make people feel "does it have to be so detailed?" and Hana Bloom gives people a similar feeling. I think the atmosphere of their company's works is great. But to put it bluntly, the production of the works is too rigorous and I can't let go. I always feel that something is missing. It is this part that Director Mizushima is able to make up for. This is what I thought at the beginning.

—— You've given so much thought just by looking at the proposal.

Kawase: How should I put it? It feels predictable. When a serious plot is handed over to Director Mizushima, he can incorporate joy, anger, sorrow and happiness into the work to make the serious content entertaining. I have closely observed his work for many years and I am sure he has this ability. So I say PAWORKS and Director Mizushima are a rare complementary combination.

——How was the script for "SHIROBAKO" created?

During the Kawase project proposal stage, these people participated: Director Mizushima, Yokote Michiko, President Horikawa, and Nagatani Takashi. After the project started, I joined the production team, along with the on-site producer Soma Shoji, the setting producer Hashimoto Masahide, and the screenwriter Yoshida Reiko. The above eight people are the main production members, and the script meeting is roughly attended by eight of us. After the story background is determined, the next step is to create the characters. How to configure the positioning of each character and how to arrange the interaction between the characters can make the plot unfold vividly. The five protagonists must be described in detail. In addition, Director Mizushima is particularly concerned about how to arrange more space for the supporting uncles. At the meeting, everyone discussed these details very enthusiastically. I understood one thing at the meeting. Director Mizushima knew what he wanted from the beginning when he created the work. He had a clear blueprint in his mind. The protagonist Xiaokui and her friends had been making animations by themselves since high school and now they have entered the industry. This was planned from the beginning... The car chase scene at the beginning of the first episode was also planned from the beginning. The director said that he had always wanted to add a car chase scene to a work about animation production.

—— So that’s how it is. I thought that part was definitely a tribute to a certain car animation.

Kawase said that he had wanted to do this kind of story for a long time, and he asked the production supervisors to drive the company's cars on the road to race against each other. My first reaction was "What are you talking about", and other people present also thought "?". But since the director said so, let's do it (laughs), and that's how the car chase scene came about.

—— “Workplace animation” is also one of the great charms of this work.

The charm of this film lies in how Kawase's characters with rich personalities work together towards a common goal. In a sense, the audience knows that this goal will be achieved in the end. Under this premise, how to make the story develop more dramatically, and deeply impress the audience even if they have guessed the plot. This depends on the skills of the screenwriter and the series composition, as well as the performance skills of Director Mizushima. This is roughly the idea.

—— It must be difficult to create such an original ensemble drama.

Kawase: It was very difficult. This time, the entire script was completed by only a few people. The main script was written by Ms. Yokote, the series composition, Reiko Yoshida was responsible for the scripts of each episode, and Tatsuhiko Urahata wrote the scripts for two episodes. There is a reason for doing this. The overall feature of the plot composition of this film is that within a single episode, there are always 3 to 4 plot lines running in parallel, and one of them must be resolved in this episode. Multiple lines are carried out simultaneously and are closely related. Although it is generally possible to let the series composition first determine the development direction and then entrust it to many screenwriters to complete, which is a way to shorten the production time, but this approach is difficult to achieve for "SHIROBAKO". For this type of original work, it is necessary to find a small number of screenwriters and give them sufficient time to polish the script. I also re-recognized this point during the production process.

——It seems that it took a long time to complete the script.

Kawase: Yes. Also, I was reading the script of SHIROBAKO and suddenly felt a sense of déjà vu. I read on and realized, "Ah, isn't this the script of Patlabor?" In my opinion, these characters are the same as the people in Special Vehicle Unit 2. When I said that, the screenwriter next to me also said, "Ah, so that's how it is" (laughs).

—— I see. Ms. Yokote's TV anime debut was "Mobile Police Patlabor".

When Kawase understood this, I understood everything. The reason why the script of "SHIROBAKO" is what it is now is that Ms. Yokote, the main screenwriter, has made an indelible contribution.